Tuesday, May 8, 2012

No, We're Not Egypt..I think...




When the Arab Spring happened in January 2011, our leaders reacted in a very odd fashion. The first response was to bring all our students in Egypt, all 11000 of them, home as if Egypt had just turned into a warzone and our students were in grave danger. It was very clear however, from what the students themselves said when they got home, that there was no physical danger at all. The ‘danger’ was more in the heads of our leaders who were perhaps afraid that our young people might get some funny ideas about democracy. Perhaps they thought the word doesn’t exist in Arabic.

There were also a lot of protestations by our leaders that Malaysia is not Egypt and our PM is not Mubarak. Well yes, Malaysia is certainly more economically advanced than Egypt. It doesn’t have the high levels of poverty and great inequalities that that country has had for decades, as well as the high youth unemployment, all of which added to the recipe for unrest that was bound to come at some time.

So no, we are not Egypt. But you know what they say about how people doth protest too much. What is this obsession with us NOT being Egypt anyway? If we’re not, then why worry? Besides, who needs to worry about the Arab Spring unless they identify themselves with Ben Ali, Mubarak, Gadaffi and Assad?

And if our PM is not Mubarak – that ex-Air Chief Marshall of the Egyptian Air Force who ruled for nearly 30 years and is now on trial on allegations of corruption as well as the premeditated murder of peaceful protestors – then what is he?

Mubarak used to torture people he didn’t like.
Mubarak was allegedly very corrupt.

Mubarak was much adored by the Americans, which was why they didn’t know what to do when the revolution started. After all they got Egypt to sign a peace treaty with Israel. During the Gaza siege two years ago, it was the Egyptians who obstructed aid from going to Gaza through Rafah. Nice guy, Mubarak.
Egyptian protestors were attacked by thugs on camels in Tahrir Square.

So what exactly was wrong with the demands made by the Egyptian people assembling in Tahrir Square? They want a greater say in the policies of the government. They want an end to corruption. They want proper elections with many candidates to choose from, not just those handpicked by the rulers. They want an end to military interference in politics. They want proper management of the economy and the many problems resulting from the mismanagement of it. Aren’t these reasonable?
Egyptian police trying to arrest a female protestor in Tahrir Square.

But our government will not acknowledge that these demands are quite normal. Well maybe they’re not in an undemocratic country. But by refusing to support the Egyptian people’s right to all of these, do they support Mubarak and the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces (SCAF)? You know, the ones who attacked their own people in Tahrir Square and killed some. The ones who did virginity tests on women protestors. The ones who tried to shut down the internet during the revolution?

The ones who are trying to rig the elections? 
Egyptian Muslims and Christians in solidarity at Tahrir Square --isn't this good?

If the Tahrir Square occupiers brought down someone like Mubarak, is that necessarily bad? They still wanted to have proper elections afterwards. And lo and behold, the Muslim Brotherhood won many seats. Well, that’s democracy, it doesn’t necessarily give you the best government. But that’s no reason to get rid of democracy.

If Malaysia is not Egypt and our leaders are not Mubarak, then why are Malaysians who went to Bersih treated like Egyptian protestors? As Tommy Thomas has pointed out here, Malaysians are not much into occupying anything. They did not bring out tents and blankets so that they can sleep in Dataran Merdeka til the government was brought down. If anyone had gone down to Dataran on the Sunday after Bersih 3.0, apart from the barbed wire, everything was back to normal. The cars were out in the streets. The malls were packed. The restaurants were full. Made our point, now let’s go eat.

This is why we are not Egypt. In this we agree with our government. We are NOT Egypt. But then why respond in such Mubarak-like fashion?

The National Fatwa Council has issued a fatwa to say that demonstrations against the government are haram. This is exactly what the head of the Al-Azhar University Fatwa Committee said in the days after January 25 2011 when the Egyptian revolution started. He seemed totally out of touch with his people and the events that were unfolding. Even the Muslim Brotherhood, or at least the younger members, were out there demonstrating, along with their more secular fellow citizens, Muslim and Christian, men and women, young and old. So getting the NFC ( hmmm…dubious initials…) to issue such a fatwa seems very Mubarak-like, doesn’t it?

Does this mean, by the way, that demonstrations against the governments of Penang, Kedah and Selangor are now haram too? Or only if they are against the Federal Government?

If I now want to have a demonstration against, say, Perkasa, I can, right? Since they’re not the government?






26 comments:

  1. I like the part "Mubarak used to torture people he didn't like". ISA detention is also a form of mental & physical torture that was used extensively. Our current govt. should appreciate the fact that Malay'ns have peaceful nature. One foreign sounding voice said this when police brutality was being filmed right before his very eyes, "this is not a war zone, why are you treating your own people like that, there is no honour in beating your own people, my family fought for this country".
    When all our check & balance had been dismantled for such a long time, today is merely the consequence of that breakdown. The current leadership was built upon cronyism, greed and power. Leaders are so embroiled in personal enrichment to the point of no return. It is naive to think that the govt will allow a clean & fair election. It has over a year to do so. Instead of addressing the demands of Bersih, it rushed through 8 Bills to make the Election Process the dirtiest in the History of Malaysia. To date, govt has not made any public statem't about these bills.
    A lot has been said about Bersih 3.0 Rally on 28th Apr. & only realistic to conclude that:-
    -One area breached by demonstrators - due to the fact that the barricades were left unattended. There were no police stationed at the barricade as though inviting people in and raised the public's suspicion abt the true nature of the police.
    -It was a fact that police fired tear gas directly into the crowd
    -Over 250k people attended and only 11 police personnel injured, true indication demonstrators were peaceful
    -Appalling that young policemen (no names/nos. tag) knowingly committed brutality in front of cameras, so confident that they will not be punished?
    -Terrifying that these will be our future enforcers
    -Not naive to perceive that the govt used the Security force as personal enforcers.
    -Govt turned a blind eye to all the rascists remarks and actions of Perkasa in the past & present, officially condoning such acts.
    -To date,Perkasa/UMNO members who have been rowdy in their demonstrations have ever been disciplined. Namely an international forum in PWTC some time ago, breaking down doors & shouting like barbarians. Bersih 3.0 is timid in comparison. It also appears that police are totally helpless in controlling UMNO/Perkasa's hooliganism in almost every aspect while acting violently on citizens.
    -Character assassination via mainstream media and what not by govt on anyone perceived to be a threat, latest being the Aussie Sen. & Saudi govt arresting peaceful demons'tors. Threat issued by Defense Minister that Malaysian Muslims may lose right to Haj.
    -Police shamelessly used photos from the rally to incriminate over 100 people but refuses to use the same source of evidence to discipline police brutality. Police see fit to arrest these people immediately but need a Panel to investigate Brutality.

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  2. Will History remember Mubarak kindly? The same will be written about current leadership. Make no mistake, eve'thng will be documented and the shame will be carried for centuries into the future.
    The demands of Bersih are Crystal Clear, matters not whether the Opposition have hijacked Rally. In fact, its presence provided some sense of safety to Bersih people. It too has a right to Clean & Fair Election. Demands are Justified & Constitutional for every citizen.
    The govt has forgotten one basic characteristic of Malaysians, that is they do not like to participate in demonstration of any kind. To get 1,000 people on the streets is extremely difficult, imagine over 250k showed up. This alone tells a story. None of the participants can deny the spirit of Muhibahism displayed at the rally. No one can deny that the crowd comprised of people from all walks of life, from young to old to the handicapped. The sense of camaraderie was so intense, something never experienced for the past 30 years. It was probably Muhibahism at its best. probably why the govt is so fearful and paranoid.
    The NFC's Fatwa is also a poor attempt by the govt. Should Bersih be Haram, then what is Halal? The Kotor SPR? Should the fight for Clean & Fair Election be Haram, then I supposed majority prefer to be Haramists.
    The govt may beat the people into submission, bull-doze its way through dirty Electoral Roll and may continue beating people into submission but this time, the Public may not yield. If not mistaken, despite the not so clean Electoral Roll in 2008, the Opposition won the Popular vote by 52%. Thus it is not naive to perceive that the Bersih claim of 300k - 3m possible fraud may be true .Itis only realistic to put the SPR under the microscope and sensible to delay the Election until the Roll is cleaned up.

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    1. speaking of kotor, i was at the national mosque area that saturday, surrounded by police personnel, just me and my friend not in blue - you should see the photos we took together. it's such an irony that just moments later, these same guys in blue would turn on us.

      anyway, an old malay couple came up to us and asked, you police or bersih? i wonder now if she meant to ask if we were kotor or bersih... ;-)

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  3. but since I'm an atheist, I can protest? or will I be arrested too?

    this government is confusing

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  4. go tell that to your dad, MM.

    Or have you conveniently left out the things that your dad supported by Mubarak and Gaddafi?

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    1. Please leave her Dad out of it. She has her opinion and her Dad has his own opinion.

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    2. Adri ..I hope you will try to understand and respect the importance of individual opinion ? Why link to Tun ? If two are the same,dont you think one is not needed ? :-) Perhaps you are a fan of clones or aspire to be one ?

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  5. Very well written and the cases objectively reviewed - with some hints of sarcasm (which I liked very much)!!!

    Indeed we need more emotionally rational and logical-minded people like MM to voice out and lead the future generations of Malaysia. We ourselves should be more open-minded and forward looking to new opportunities and alternative political parties to bring real transformations that are in line with the aspirations of our younger generations - they are after all the future leaders of Malaysia. It's pointless to run down the front-liners, or worse still to drag the unrelated pasts of their predecessors and associates, who show courage and passion in voicing out their concerns for betterment of this nation.

    We can't vouch that other parties or new government will be squeaky clean, fair and free from scandals - but for sure our current government has failed us miserably despite the years and decades (and 'forgiveness') given for them to prove their competencies, if any. (To quote: ...the Muslim Brotherhood won many seats. Well, that’s democracy, it doesn’t necessarily give you the best government.)

    Whichever the eventual (new) government after the GE13, it doesn't mean they can sit on their laurel because as a true democratic country, we can - and should - vote them out after their term for not performing, too...

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  6. MARINA MAHATHIR ELOK BERHENTI JADI ANJING AMBIGA - kata PAPAGOMO. Bukan saya yg kata, tapi dia yg kata. Saya setuju je.

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  7. "If Malaysia is not Egypt and our leaders are not Mubarak, then why are Malaysians who went to Bersih treated like Egyptian protestors?" very simple - Because they want to be like the Egyptians protestors. they wanted to be treated that way....

    True we are not like Egypt, then why need to have the bersih in the first place ? We have elections consistently, without fail, and now suddenly we had to walk on the street for some election reform? To date, Bersih has not submitted a single proof of all their accusations to SPR. Have you realized this over their rhetoric ?

    Government already in the process of reviewing, implementing, considering 7 out of 8 bersih 2.0 demand. Why you need to let your daughter roam the street?

    Let me tell you something. I don't know how many hundred thousand people Anwar / Ambiga was trying to pull, but the turnout was plausible, expert observers says max 30,000.
    How do you control 30,000 people? can all fit in dataran? do the maths. forget about hundred thousand.

    You think it is going to be a peace protest ( still wondering what to protest ).

    DO YOU KNOW THAT THIS SORT OF GATHERING IS A MAGNET FOR TROUBLE MAKERS????

    I mean those mat rempits that got held by police for all kinds of offences.
    Those crooks on the streets and all those that had grudges against the police.

    Bersih 3.0 was their chance. Their golden opportunity to hit back and run. They know better than you. And you let your daughter walk among these thugs. Nice.

    At the end of the day, what did Bersih achieved? Big crowd, yes, but silent majority is bigger.
    Real objectives? Zilch. You solve problems on the table, not on the street. This is not Egypt.

    By the way, the Pakatan MP's also rejected electoral reform new bill. Now tell me why you were on the street again.

    btw, people paid road tax and their rights to use the road was taken away. not to mentions local businesses. Does Bersih care?

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    1. carlos, are you malaysian??? Even on the street I was stadning on, I did a rough physical count and fitted 11,000 people and that was only from one traffic light junction to the other. Have you been sleeping??? The evidence has been produced and SPR has yet to reply. What 7 out of 8??? Where are they???? Are you lost in space???...Do you know what was on the 8 bills that were rushed trhough 1 week before the 28th Rally????....Do you know that these bills were recently withdrawn??? Do you know how much is our National Debt???...Do you evebn know anything at all for that matter....sigh.

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    2. PL...maybe this is the guy who set up a burger stall in front of Ambiga's house,who gets 2k a day but never paid his income tax.Don't mind him.

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    3. Nice piece and an honest one to me.Papagomo read rubbish and wrote crap so screw him.You choose not to sell your soul,like he did.

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    4. PL, if there are real evidence, why aren't they taken to court ? Declare the elections results null and void, ada berani?
      Recent PKR party elections was the most rigged ever. Zaid Ibrahim was so disgusted and left the party ( like most)
      Take time to listen to this http://www.apanama2020.blogspot.com/2012/04/why-not-bersih.html
      I know you had plenty of time to roam the streets and count people.

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    5. Ya, I wonder.. if really is the election in malaysia is so dirty, how come PKR didn't ask for re-counting again when it won in Selangor.. Ungrateful people.. Of course Malaysia is not like Egypt, because Malaysian polices are far better than those in Egypt.. They are not asking for better election, they just want BN tumbang...

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  8. Carlos,

    For your information, Egypt also have elections without fail.

    There is nothing wrong with the demonstration in Egypt. The leaders were corrupt and the election were just for show. It had to be done. Similar with Libya and Tunisia, these country were ruled by dictators.

    There is no need for the government to make a reference with Egypt.

    Democracy is not about elections. It is about the people in a country participating to decide the future of country. In order for that to happen, the election have to be held in fair and transparent manner. Correct information have to be transmitted to the people so that they can make informed decision in choosing leaders who can manage the country. The media will have to play an impartial role to dessimate information to the people. It should not incline to any parties.

    In addition, the political climate have to be healthy such that political parties (government and opposition) should participate in debating policies that directly involve the lives of the people of the country . There should not be significant diversion where there is too much dirty politics.

    Apparently, there were large number of people who are not satisfy with the process of democracy. Hence Bersih 3.0. There were discussions before and there were two Bersih prior to this one.

    About you comment, where demonstration is a magnet for hooligans. We have men in uniform to protect the people.On that day, there were thousand of them. Unfortunately, the men in uniform were protecting that piece of land in the city centre rather then the people on that day.

    The bills that you mentioned were table hastily without thorought debate. We have the parliment in this country so that bills is debated by lawmakers.
    Please get your fact correctly before making ‘wild’ accusations.

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    1. Joe, on another level, the arab spring was the western agenda to change those leaders by letting the locals do the donkey job. Notice how enthusiastic they were to encourage the public revolt etc etc. Iraq had been very costly.
      Ever notice Anwar also announcing about Malaysian spring....who needs elections

      If our elections were really crap, PAS would not have survived 20 years in Kelantan. 20 year is a very long time not to be able to rigged the elections. BN has been talking about taking over Kelantan for two decades, mind you, and still not successful. Kedah, Penang, Selangor, Perak would not have been into Pakatan hands in 2008 if BN rigged the elections.

      You expect men in uniform to protect the people and they did, until they got attacked by the "people" who got the infamous signal from you know who...

      And you think the opposition is really interested to debate in parliament on electoral reforms? If they did, there won't be anything to complaint about when they already signed it. And they won't be able to say its SPR fault if they did not win. Its always somebody else fault to Pakatan. Have you ever heard BN blame others for their lost? They kicked out their own president. Will anyone in Pakatan brave enough to ask their dinosour / dynastic leaders to step down? Most got kicked, sacked etc. Do you trust democracy will prevail in Pakatan? HAve they set any example??? Are Pakatan mature enough to kick out old leaders for fresh new ones ? Or even to admit their own mistakes? hardly...

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    2. Carlos,

      This is want you want to believe. Not the truth.

      Those middle east countries where there are arab springs are in the plight of removing "dictators". Those dictators had to go.

      There are a lot of theories about western agenda and the sort, bottom line is that those are "dictators". There is no need to debate further about this.

      By the way, how do you know that the existing dictators were not western stooge?

      Secondly, you are making a conclusion that since Kedah, Penang, Selangor and Perak goes to Pakatan, then the election had to be fair. Can we confirm conclusively that election "must" be fair since those states went to Pakatan?. Then using the same logic we can make a conclusion that since all this while BN rule the land then the EC "must" be unfair.

      The truth is that we cannot make those conclusion. It is rather simplistic in nature. You can use this logic to those who do not go to school.

      There are claimed being made, those claimed had to be addressed.

      You are against the Pakatan politician. I do not trust both sides. Politician are all liars. That is why we need a system that ensure that the system is "fair" and one party to do not take advantage of the system to stay in power.

      We are not the sole country in the planet. There are other countries, developed countries where a dual party system in place. If a just and fair system in place, then a government will work to serve the people, otherwise they will be replaced if they don't. This will apply to both Pakatan or the government. That is the fundamentals of democracy, we did not subscribed to communcism like China.

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    3. So which part of our election is not fair? be specific. Third world indelible ink is the way forward? Europe should follow too. Government already taking actions and making reform post bersih 2.0. We hear bersih! bersih! here and there. but nobody care about the specifics. please listen to the links I've posted above. It is not something to be solved by sitting on the padang.

      Your logic also means the EC is finally fair during mac 2008? Pakatan never complain at that time. Bn did not complain too. Bn just kicked their president, and moved on. Pakatan still stick to their dinosours who can't take dissidents within their party. Just sack them. You see progress here?

      Btw, those dictators were put by the west for their interest in the first place. When their interest were no longer served, they just switch to another western stooge. Its really that simple. So what are real truth? Those country become a much better place? You think the US with their CIA is just sitting in their office watching the world go by taking its own course?
      And why the hell is NDI / NED funding their electoral reform program in Malaysia.??? Whose interest are they serving? Ambiga did admit getting assistance from these group. So these people tells ambiga to use indelible ink, while they do not?

      Back to the middle east, what really sparked the uprisings? Death if you noticed. Once there is a death, the whole thing just spiralled out of control. thanks to twitter, facebook, youtube. Have you seen that fake death during bersih2.0? what's that for? Miraculously he was alive later that afternoon. There are so much subversive elements that most demonstrators aren't aware. Bersih was just a tool. Only the naive would think its going to be peaceful.

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    4. Carlos,

      You are still referring to the Middle East. Like I said earlier, they were "dictators".

      Mohamed Hosni Mubarak, Ben Ali, Abdullah Salleh, Muamar Gaddafi, were all dictators. Assad is currently left holding power.

      You should read how it began to really understand the dynamics behind the Arab Spring. Hosni Mubarak is an American ally. The West surely would prefer Hosni Mubarak and furthermore, Egypt have a diplomatic ties with Israel. During the Arab Spring, they burnt down the Israely embassy.

      The West did not start the Arab Spring but the West "must" get involved in the middle east as they have interest there. (oil and Israel). That is what had happened in particular Libya. The West cannot just sit and watched things unfold.

      You should refer to chronological events of what had happened, how arab spring started. You should not create theories based on your own fancy.

      To make it simple, they are dictators, therefore they had to go. It is inevitable.

      About Bersih, there were specifics that were given. Those specifics were not published in the mainstream media. That is why there is a demand for fair media coverage. There is a debate between "Khairy and Ambiga" in youtube, refer to that. We are now in IT age, are we not?

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    5. Joe,

      I think the reason why Carlos was referring to the Arab leaders is simple. Our PM is not like that, even Dr. Mahathir who people claimed a dictator was not like the Arab leaders.

      I believe most Malaysians have big cars, big houses, eat everyday.. The situation in Malaysia is different from those in Egypt & Libya. That's why, I could understand why their people wanted to topple their leaders. But in Malaysia? PR has already won in Selangor, Kelantan, Kedah, Penang & Perak? So what is it that does not fair? If really not fair, why didn't PR asked SPR to re-count it again, you know, just to make sure.

      Bersih is just a tool for DSAI to rule Malaysia.

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    6. Anai,

      I think what Joe meant is not abt just being fair or not fair, but the cause n effect behind it. This is not a conquering game that PR won Selangor, Kelantan, Kedah, Penang & Perak then means ok u got the high score n should i reward u a trophy or something? Even PR win those, the one that makes the decisions r still mainly heavily influence (well more of DECIDED in a way) by BN.

      So ya maybe PR shud just laid back n hav a partee celebrating the earning points....why need the fuss to pursue? For power? I wouldnt know, they might or might not now, n they might be greedy in decades to come or probably just partial of the people. But the main course now is, as what Joe said - dictatorship!!!

      Yea PR win those states, but they can't stop LYNAS, n we even open arms inviting RAPID to Johor which even Taiwan had a huge protest n finally rejected the plant. Yea yea i know u be saying abt economical n such, hey, let me remind u, we're a petrol rich company, we ARE supposed to be rich (not individually but living qualities of the whole country). Dont talk abt the cars or things we have, spend time to small towns n secluded area, many are still under poverty, n imagine country being in debt, the ones that will be slapped n hitted most will be them if a huge economy tsunami to happen.

      Ok, now back to the subject. Yes, it's the dictatorship.

      N sorry u got it all wrong about Bersih, well yea maybe it's a tool for DSAI to rule the Malaysia, but again how many of Bersih participants r actually normal people n not all of them r exact supporters of the opposition leaders (some). But why they participate? It's because we want clean election, n why we want it clean? We want the people's voice to b heard.

      We people r the real deal of what we're pursuing now, a democratic country should be in the way when the government doesnt performs or had wrong-doings, we hav to put them down, n let others to take over, n if again the next fails, we people will take them down again....yes, THIS is the course of all the people who attended bersih, whether u wanna call the act as Bersih or a tool or some hooligans riot, the objective of the people that gathered r the same.... WE THE PEOPLE WANT OUR VOICES TO BE HEARD, THIS IS OUR COUNTRY, OUR FUTURE!

      If BN really hav the good deal, what loss would they hav for indelible ink? Ya know, unless your pants has a hole, or else u will not hav any problems to stand up....so why would they need to insist on such a small favor if indeed they hav nothing to hide?

      I'm not a BN hater, i hate ppl who runs BN NOW! If they change in years n performs well to all the people, yes again I hav no problem voting them in n i bliv all the ppl hav no issue supporting them again.

      The question is, the fear of losing their thrones r getting obvious, instead of proving what capability they have, they USES the capability they obtained from their positions to try to secure their thrones...

      Just a recap, Government is not a special race/body/organization etc etc, Government is an institution existed n formed by the people to help govern the whole country monitoring n synchronise the system; Government doesnt owns the people, n doesnt owns the country, the decision should always comes from the people.

      If people insisted do not want LYNAS, regardless it's worth a bill to be as rich as singapore in overnight, the people voice should be the final decision n reason even if the people deem to take a decade for such wealth, cos that how a democratic country shud be, it's the people's decision, NOT the government (which most ppl keep putting them as some superior position forgeting whats the real function n definition of the a government),

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  9. i have been reliably informed by an Egyptian colleague resident in Cairo, that the "thugs on camels" were actually just frustrated camel herders who had lost a small fortune in unearned income as the tourists who normally bought rides from them at the Museum were not to be found because of the demonstrations/protests. They were just acting out their frustration at not being able to feed either their families or their animals.

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  10. I am neither a fan of BN nor PR. Both of them have their flaws. But I believe that there is a need for democracy and alternative voices in the parliament so that we can keep the government checked and balanced.

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  11. of course Carlos has his points, so do others.But he is everywhere from talking about Kak Marina's daughter and to the tax payers who needs to use the street to go Mid Valley shopping mall or Pavilion for their weekly pilgrimage. We do apologise if you miss the Big Sale or movies or late for your favorite nasi lemak in the cozy malls.

    First of all, roads were blocked . True . But there were many alternative roads to use, no ? The tax payers have the rights to use the roads, so do many malaysians who paid taxes but only to find out that their thousands of taxes paid every year has been used to fund this and that shopping spree, mansions, palace etc. So do they not have the right to protest as they deemed right ? You should figure out why 30,000 people Malaysian sacrificed and showed unity on one very common objective.

    Secondly, even if we have elections, who says we cannot demonstrate or gather peacefully ? (please do not use the word protest which is very negative) ...Why can we gather on a common cause ? If you think having 10,000 people are sure recipe for chaos ..then you should rally behind certain parties who constantly ban concerts in Malaysia...oh yes...people should not go to mosque on Friday because according to your idea, it will invite chaos. Have you not underestimated Malaysians ? And picking up one or two fights here and there (which I suspect where placed by certain people) to conclude on the overall event is like nila setitik rosak susu sebelanga ? Please look further , please look at the principles, please look at the bigger picture than just the burger or nasi lemak sellers ...

    As for your comment on " At the end of the day, what did Bersih achieved? Big crowd, yes, but silent majority is bigger.Real objectives? Zilch. You solve problems on the table, not on the street. This is not Egypt." Sometimes , things that you achieve via Bersih is not as tangible as you want to see Carlos, can you people's zeal, motivation and spirit that day ? Perhaps you are one of those big shots up there that has a chance to solve it at the table, but for majority of malaysians, this is their way to express their disagreement, voice their concern in very conservative way. "Silence majority bigger" , you seems to be contradicting yourself ..perhaps the majority are like you waiting and waiting and planning and planning to solve things on the table or to get near to the table ? You have to look at the relative turn out of this gathering and not short sighted by the absolute numbers. Compare to other gatherings before rather than dishing out a immature comparison to the whole malaysian population. After all it is quality not quantity , no ?

    To link the Mat Rempits to getting back at police is absolutely out of line here. Perhaps your advice is for the police to hide ?

    "Will anyone in Pakatan brave enough to ask their dinosour / dynastic leaders to step down? Most got kicked, sacked etc. Do you trust democracy will prevail in Pakatan ? HAve they set any example??" There may be some interesting elements here but why ask their leaders to quit for quitting sake ? After all bumi mana tidak ditimpa hujan ? Please isolate the party from the principles ? And even democracy has different interpretations and colours , democracy like in US ? like in UK or like in France ? or like in India ? No doubt, Pakatan is not all saint, plus they are very young in terms of running governments, and they like everyone else should be given a chance and trust me that Malaysians are very wise and mature now that if they still behave or exhibit undemocratic behavior, they can kiss goodbye to their seats next. But if you keep harping on the fact that Pakatan would not be better than BN without trying, you will never know ...nobody knows. We can all sit back and enjoy our nasi lemak, roti canai or char koay teow. But some of us chose not to. . ...continue

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  12. And finally you went on to talk about whether election in the pass was fair etc ? err let me make a simple example here. If we say election in Peninsular Malaysia is fair , can you say the same for Sarawak where there are many remote villages etc ? If voting is fair in Penang, can we say the same in Pahang ? Can you guarantee that it does not happen in all and every constituency ? Different crowd , different people, different candidates ? To use Kelantan as an ultimatum that the election has been fair is probably too naive ? To use a broad brush to
    conclude on the pass elections is like closing the road continuous improvement ? You mean we can be better ? we are relatively young democratic country so why so hard on moving forward ? History is meant for us to learn, to remember and to ensure bad episodes do not recur, not for us to stick to it and be stucked in history, no ? I always believe that the glass is half full and there is always room for improvement and move forward ? What is wrong with going for better ?

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